What we have in the Israeli Knesset is a conflict between ideologues who do not understand the value of restraint of not trying to advance their ideals in the face of the horrible consequences of doing so - versus ideologues who understand that compromise is often necessary in order to survive. In fact, compromise may very well be the best of all possible outcomes.
But to the hardcore ideologues of the extreme right, compromise is not an option. They are true believers in their cause — to the point of thinking that God will ultimately assure their victory, despite the obvious and impossible challenges that promoting their policies will bring.
It is, in fact, ironic that the ideals and beliefs that inspire right-wing fanatics to lose all rational thought and proceed carelessly with goals that will almost surely bring tragedy to the people of Israel (and possibly to Jews all over the world by virtue of their association with Israel) are the very same beliefs and ideals that I share. I too believe that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people, as promised by God in the Bible. There is no denying that fact. It is stated in black and white several times and was the ultimate goal of our exodus from Egypt.
The difference between us is that the conditions on the ground do not allow us to restore our sovereignty over all of the land. There is simply no possible way to accomplish that now. First, because there are people living there who have their own religious claims to the Land of Israel — and they will certainly not relinquish the parts they now occupy. They have their own right wing, whose religious beliefs require them to fight to the death to achieve what they see as their rightful claim to the land.
Israel has been denying that possibility in a variety of ways — most importantly, through security measures designed to thwart Palestinian terrorist attempts to achieve their goals. Unfortunately, these measures make life very hard for most Palestinian families. That is why Israel’s critics (increasingly including Europe) call Israel a brutal occupying force and even an apartheid state — a big lie that much of the world has bought into.
The idea of taking that land away from Palestinians outrages Israel’s critics — which include most of Europe and several Arab states that have recently indicated an interest in making peace with Israel. They believe Israel has no business occupying that land in the first place.
The most important reason for not even suggesting annexation of the West Bank is that Israel could lose the support of its only true ally — the United States. The president has already suggested as much after the Knesset’s foolish vote to do so a few days ago.
If Israel were to act on the notion of annexing the West Bank, the bloodshed that would follow would be unprecedented. Palestinians will not sit idly by while Israel tries to remove them from land their families have lived on for generations. They will fight back — and the world will cheer them on.
All of this means that the only way we can restore our sovereignty over all the Land of Israel is when Moshiach comes. Now is not the time. Any attempt to do so now is beyond foolhardy — if not entirely suicidal.
These circumstances are why I originally supported the concept of “land for peace.” I once believed that a compromise could be reached that would allow both peoples to gain some of what they wanted — even if neither got everything they desired. I believed that peaceful coexistence was the only way out of generations of war and terror — that Palestinians would ultimately choose peace over Israel’s destruction.
I have long been disabused of that notion after realizing that they want a Jew-free Palestine more than they want peace. Peaceful coexistence was a one-sided dream — Israel’s dream.
That “dream” persists to this day among many nations of the world that, for some reason, still believe what I once did — that Palestinians would choose peace over constant oppression and war. Many Israelis (mostly on the left) naively believed that as well. But after October 7th, 2023, most Israelis finally came to their senses and realized that this was not a viable possibility. One way or another, Palestinians would continue to try to turn Israel into a Jew-free Palestine.
And yet, the Knesset voting to annex the West Bank was still the stupidest thing Israel could have done. I’m glad to hear that the prime minister distanced himself from it — but the fallout from that foolish stunt hasn’t ended yet. What it does is lend credence to all of Israel’s enemies who claim that Israel has no interest in ending its “brutal” occupation of the West Bank and is determined to occupy Gaza in the same way.
I’ve given this some thought. If I were the prime minister, I would look at the situation now — at the weakening of our enemies, the willingness of Arab nations to make peace with Israel, and the creation of worldwide goodwill — and I would publicly embrace the concept of a future Palestinian state.
How, one may ask, does that square with my belief that such a state is impossible today and could destroy Israel?
I still believe that if a Palestinian state were to be established now, it would be suicidal. There is no possible way to create a Palestinian state with people whose ultimate agenda is to destroy you.
No, I am not schizophrenic. What I am suggesting is that any agreement for a future Palestinian state must be conditioned on a long-term transformation — at least a generation (25 years or so) — beginning with a complete restructuring of Palestinian education.
This must include the rejection of all materials and rhetoric that vilify the Jewish people or the State of Israel. It must start in the home, in mosques, and especially in schools. Curricula must be developed that teach young Palestinians the opposite of what they are being taught now. They need to be immersed in a culture that rejects the old anti-Israel, anti-Jewish paradigm their parents were subjected to. It must be made illegal to refer derogatorily to Israel or the Jewish people.
Independent monitors with expertise in antisemitism should oversee Palestinian life during this transition. The point being: once Palestinians stop hating us, the chance for peace will arise — and it could take the form of a provisional Palestinian state. That state, too, should be monitored by international experts to ensure compliance.
After a period of genuine peaceful coexistence under these conditions, a two-state solution might actually work.
Who might lead such a state in 25 years can be determined then. But it would have to be someone who rejects the idea of destroying Israel as a Jewish state, agrees in principle to peaceful coexistence, and has no terrorist ties or sympathies.
Will it happen? I strongly doubt it. It is nigh impossible to disabuse people of hate instilled in them generationally for well over a hundred years. The logistics of implementing such a plan would be just as nearly impossible. But Israel could accept the idea in theory - IF these or similar conditions were implemented. The world would gladly welcome any such gesture from Israel - and the U.S. might even endorse it.
Which is a far better idea than trying to annex it.
Obviously, your basic premise is correct, we believe that Eretz Israel belongs to the Jewish people. The problem is the world also believes in a Palestinian state-not just Europe-latest polls majority of Americans in favor of a Palestinian state -including 41% of Republicans. Israel depends on other nations for survival-they now have NO major supporters in the world. Including BTW Trump-just read Israeli press the way they say Israel has become a vassal/client state of the US. Arrogance of Israeli politicians doesn't help. Of course, the world remembers partition is how Israel came into being. The demographics in Yehudah vShomron show vast majority of Residents are not Jewish. Demanding everything with certainty that God won't let Israel be destroyed led to both Churban Bayit Rishon v Sheni.
ReplyDeleteThe irrational belief in Trump for a few years has been a wonder-especially naivete on Yehudah vShomron-when he was there in 2017 he refused to let Bibi and other Israeli government officials accompany him to the Kotel and other places in the Old City. Israeli press at time pointed out insult to Israel-ignored primarily by RW Orthodox Conservative bloggers but not knew. Trump also stopped an attempt by Israel to annex territory during first administration
Irrational belief in Trump? You are among those who have an irrational hate of Trump. I have no illusions about who he is. Nor do I ignore his many faults. Which I have enumerated many times. That has not changed. Nor do I think much of his signatures domestic policy. Tariffs are a disaster for the consumer and small business. Trump’s solution to help the American worker is being done at our expense. He is in effect taxing the consumer to pay for organized labor’s overpriced labor market. That is usually the realm of liberal Democrats. Not conservative Republicans.
ReplyDeleteAnother domestic Trump disaster is his sec of HHS, RFK is a moron who believes in discredited medical studies. I believe he is hurting the country with his nonsense.
But Trump’s foreign policy decisions have been excellent Israel. That’s the difference between people like me who look at each policy and evaluate them objectively. For People like you whose disgust for Trump blinds your objectivity, it’s impossible for you to judge him fairly. Here’s a guy who got all the hostages out without Israel being required to fully withdraw from Gaza. He ended the war and is prepared to obliterate Hamas if they don’t return the bodies of all the remaining hostages and fully disarm. But people like you can’t bring themselves to recognize that. Instead you find ways to discredit what ha did or at least mode it. Thankfully most of the world including some of his strongest critics have given him credit for that. The only irrational person here is you, mycroft!
Overpriced labor market? Who is being paid too much mechanchim? School administrators? Overpriced is what the North American market requires to be Orthodox-pricing out huge amounts of people from derech hashem.
ReplyDeleteWe disagree on Israel-his ordering Israel around as a client state/vassal state is unique in American politics.
Got the hostages out-even without withdrawing a centimeter exactly the definition of too much ransom guaranteeing repeat occurences-last fall when many got excited on this blog that Trump will free the hostages obvious point was made only party has leverage on is Israel. Which of course he used to get his deal. See how Kushner and Witkoff talked about Trump in 60 minutes.
You refuse to recognize who stopped the war without meeting their war aims under US pressure? Losing wars is devastating. After the war does Hamas still control Gazan population?
Your problem is that you only focus on worst possible interpretation of events so that it fits with your biases. Of course you will say the same ting about me. Except that if you look at how virtually the entire Orthodox establishment reacted to this, you will see who is REALLY a victim of his own bias. You are the most biased commentator on this blog, mycroft.
ReplyDeleteWhat does Orthodox establishment got to do with what is good for Jews and Israel.. They will tell the positions good for them.Of course with DJT everybody has to praise Trump dither wise he will take it out on your side-see Zelenskyy. Mycroft having trouble getting Google to go other than anonymous
DeleteWow. You really can't let it go, can you. A psychologist would have a field day.
ReplyDeleteI believe I am telling the truth just check Nachum at many Israeli publications find articles about Israel being treated as a vassal state. Want to ignore see who before Oct 2023 stated repeatedly that IDF was not rated as high Jews believed. Consequences are from Trump having enough of Bibi and Israel much more interested in QatarMycroft
Deleteafter a good number of years, assuming continued success of the Abrahamic, or shall I say AVRAHAMIC accords, the possibility of a Palestinian state can emerge. France and Germany, the US and Japan are now allies.
ReplyDeleteThese future events are highly dependent on who the President du Jour is.
ReplyDeleteAlmost any Demoncratic Party president will be antagonistic towards Israel.
(And we don't really know where VP Vance will stand on Israel. Assuming he is the future nominee.)
Meaning campaign donations by Jewish donors count heavily. (And we don't know where the Jewish donors stand.)
Agreed that likely future Presidents will be worse for zisrael than Trump-of course Trump has been worse than most previous Presidents. Who else ordered Israel to do things opposed by its government to this extent. Who embarrassed Israel for attempting to kill Hamas leaders in a country major financier of Hamas.?Mycroft
ReplyDelete