Billboard of the president and Charlie Kirk in Tel Aviv (Forward) |
In the hours and days following Kirk’s assassination, it seemed like every Orthodox leader and institution in America was treating a devout Christian like a deceased rebbe.
The chief executive of Aish, an Orthodox outreach organization, mourned the loss of “a courageous advocate for our people.” The president of Yeshiva University called Kirk “a personal friend, a friend to our community.” The head spokesperson for Chabad highlighted the Turning Point USA founder’s “steadfast friendship to the Jewish people.” A Chabad rabbi even called Kirk “the Abraham of our time.”
The last time I discussed why I believed Kirk’s views
resonated so strongly with Orthodox Jews, I got pushback from some of my liberal
Jewish friends. They were quick to list (or link to) antisemitic tropes Kirk used and
challenged me on why I thought someone who said things like that could ever be seen as a friend - much less an icon to Orthodox Jews.
The answer is quite simple. As Keene notes, both Kirk and
Orthodox Jews place a high value on the Bible, whose values guide our lives.
His support for Israel, for example, is based on God’s promise to the Jewish
people that the Holy Land is given to them. That is the primary reason Orthodox
Jews support Israel as the Jewish homeland. Instead of, say, Uganda.
In a culture that glorifies behavior the Bible considers
abominable, Kirk’s rejection of that culture resonates with us too. This is
also why Evangelical Christians, who focus so much on biblical values, are our
natural allies.
But what about those antisemitic tropes? Shouldn’t that at
least neutralize, if not outright cancel, our consideration of Kirk as an icon?
And what about the following?
Not all of Kirk’s politics — anti-LGBTQ+, anti-woke, anti-abortion, anti-DEI — map neatly onto halacha, or Jewish law. (And there are other biblical values that he would seem to have violated personally; demeaning speech, for example, is prohibited.)
First, I would have to disagree that being anti-LGBTQ+ is
in any way a violation of Halacha. In fact, the opposite is true. Halacha is
very much opposed to LGBTQ+ values and practices. And while demeaning speech is
a serious violation of Jewish law, its application is not as simple as one
might think (the details of which are beyond the scope of this post). But even
if it is, the fact that he is guilty of one violation (which, I dare say, we
are all guilty of) does not negate his views on other biblically guided issues
with which we agree, especially those issues that directly impact the moral
fabric of this country.
The irony is that those who oppose Kirk, and consider him an
unrepentant antisemite, cannot understand why so many Orthodox Jews can
identify with a man like that. It is as if they consider us clueless about
those tropes. But that is not the case. What is the case is that we
judge the overall person. We see what they value and what they don’t. And more
importantly, we examine more closely why he made some of those disparaging
comments about ‘the Jews’. This is not to say that we should condone those
comments. We should not. It is only to understand why they are not necessarily antisemitic.
A closer look shows that what bothered him about ‘the Jews’ is the very same thing that bothers Orthodox Jews about the majority of the Jewish world – who are not observant and mostly very liberal politically. Namely, that their values are not biblically based, but instead shaped by prevailing liberal cultural attitudes.
When Jews are at the forefront of promoting the anti-biblical
values of an LGBTQ+ agenda, they should be called out. Which I have done. Many
times!
These are the Jews Kirk was talking about. And blaming them
for the moral decline in the country is not that far off if you consider that
the centerpiece of that decline is Hollywood. The sad reality is that Jews have
an inordinate influence in what Hollywood produces and promotes. Their numbers in Hollywood
are vastly greater, proportionally, than their numbers in the general
population. So of course they share responsibility.
That being said, Kirk should not have singled out ‘Jews’ as responsible for the moral decline of American culture. He should have instead simply focused on liberals or progressives, without mentioning Jews. Because when he did, he left himself open to being considered an antisemite. Which he clearly was not. He was simply opposed to the values promoted by the majority of non-Orthodox Jews, most of whom have substituted liberal or progressive values for biblical ones:
Kirk carried the torch for ideas that the liberal consensus holds are outdated: that marriage is between a man and a woman; that a woman should submit to her husband; that gender is defined at birth; and that belief in God is the source of morality.
In other words, Orthodox Jews and the ‘Charlie Kirks of the
world’ are really on the same biblical page. The obvious major theological
differences between us don’t amount to a hill of beans when it comes to promoting the
values of the Bible. Values upon which we see eye to eye. That is why he is considered a near icon.
What about accusations that Evangelical Christians (of
which Kirk was one) only support us in order to convert us?
Nonsense. I agree with Eli Steinberg, a Haredi Orthodox commentator who wasn’t suspicious of Kirk’s motives and said the following:
“We’re not at the point in time right now where the Christian allies of Jewish people are seeking to convert Jews to Christianity,” Steinberg said. “What we do have is an overwhelming force of secularists who have, in place of religion, woke politics.”
As further noted by Keene:
Kirk’s Christianity was central to his appeal, in part because he made Jewish practice a part of it. He wrote a forthcoming book about the value of “the Jewish Sabbath” — from a conservative publishing house, not ArtScroll — in which he said he observed Shabbat by turning off his phone and logging out of social media. And he once implored Jewish students to observe Shabbat themselves.
If Kirk was an antisemite, we sure could use a lot more antisemites like him. It would make the U.S. a far better place to raise our children. And America might just see Israel in an entirely different and entirely better light.
From article you refer to
ReplyDelete, these tributes may have seemed strange. Charlie Kirk, steadfast friend? This was a man who blamed Jews for promoting “anti-whiteness.” Courageous advocate for our people? Kirk had said “radical, open border, neoliberal, quasi-Marxist policies” were the fault of Jewish donors....y; demeaning speech, for example, is prohibited.) But as Orthodox Jews have allied with the Christian right, there has been a values exchange. Orthodox Jewish organizations are now participants in the weakening of the separation of church and state, which liberal Jews tend to see as the bedrock of Jewish success and security in this country....Religion scholars say the notion of “Judeo-Christian values” — which Kirk often said were foundational to the United States — are a right-wing myth...But if trafficking in antisemitic tropes leads to antisemitic violence, as organizations like the ADL — which said Kirk “created a vast platform for extremists and far-right conspiracy theorists” — often assert, then Orthodox Jews have a disproportionate likelihood of being the victims. Right-wing antisemitism remains a greater cause of violence than left-wing antisemitism; the mass shooter at Chabad of Poway in 2019 hated both Muslims and Jews.
How interesting how many Orthodox leaders will praise someone who has spoken in an anti-Semitic manner because they perceive alliance maybe good for a talent of gold. All about pocketbook-Orthodox Jews don't in geeneral perceive any responsibility to the general population thus support candidates based on what will be good for their assets. Certainly, if can dream feeding off US taxpayers for your programs that per se becomes the moral position. Has beeen like that fr decades. FWIW 55 or so years ago things were slightly different YU for example had many students volunteering in local public school tutoring kids who were not Jewish and not crowd that Kirk's followers were interested in. No matter anyones positions there is no excuse for violence-.
ReplyDeleteOkay. Kirk was an antisemite who believed unpleasant things about Jews that Jews themselves should recognize and admit. I think I’ve heard that one before, regarding another critic of Jewish liberalism.
ReplyDeleteBut what about Kirk’s views of Black people? You know, all the stuff about the Civil Rights Act being a bad idea and slavery being a good deal for the slaves. About America being founded as a country for white people, who are destined to run it. Is that okay, considering that Kirk dreamed of a straitlaced, pious, law-abiding nation wedded to the Bible?
I'm gonna guess you don't live in a very diverse zip code.
DeleteThat's what we conservatives called "revealed preference."
My zip code — my street, for that matter — is unusually diverse in terms of religion, race, ethnicity, political preferences, and ranges of income.
DeleteNo. But I would need to hear context and reserve judgment til then.
ReplyDeleteIf he is the racist you imply he is,DSF, how is it possible that so many O Jewish Organizations and rabbis consider him an icon?
I think it might be the case that comments he made about slavery for example might be based on the biblical view of slavery. Which is NOT based on skin color. The Bible does not look that unfavorably on slavery considering that it discusses the possibility of a Jew preferring to remain a slave, alllowing him to do so, and instructing him how to go about it Halachcily.
This does not of course match the common view of slavery these days. Which is based on the horrible way slaves - who were all black- were treated. But you can’t judge the standards of yesteryear by the standards of today.
Kirk made making derogatory comments about Blacks for many years. Just Google them and decide for yourself their context and meaning.
DeleteI really don’t care what various right-wing Orthodox organizations have said about Kirk. Anti-Black racism isn’t something that these organizations seem to care about, as it isn’t a strictly Jewish religious concern. In the past couple of years Kirk embraced Israel, which likely influenced these organizations’ view of him. That and Kirk’s hardcore anti-LGBTQ, xenophobic, pro-white views, which mirror those of much of the far-right Orthodox community.
Do you really think the president of YU is a far right O Jew? He isn't.
DeleteI am beginning to believe that you think ALL Orthodox Jews (or at least the vast majority) are right wing extremists. If believing that God (through His Word - the Bible) is the source of morality makes one an extremist, then I too am an extremist.
DeleteBiblical commandments need not be rational-see e.g. chukim. We follow them because we believe God revealed the Torah for Jews to follow.Non Jews 7 Noachide laws-entirely different than Taryag
DeleteIt took me a few minutes to find R’Berman’s remarks on Kirk’s death, made at a YU concert. R’Berman said Kirk was “a great friend of our community” and offered prayers for his family.
DeleteKirk was pro-Israel for the past two years or so, as I’ve said. He was rewarded for it: Bernie Marcus gave millions to Turning Point, Kirk’s organization. Many right-wing Jews considered Kirk’s support to have been a valuable link to the MAGA base, which otherwise has few institutional ties with Jews, religious or otherwise. Others applauded him simply because he applauded Israel.
R’Berman isn’t far-right, but he isn’t going to overlook a chance to praise “a great friend of our community” who was killed by an assassin’s bullet. Kirk’s well-earned reputation for anti-Black bigotry and support for white nationalism apparently did not faze the rabbi, who, after all, was talking about Us, not Them. They are beside the point — always beside the point.
Re R Ari Berman I asked chatgbt where he stands politically Where That Places Him
DeletePutting these together, Rabbi Ari Berman tends towards the conservative / center‑right end of the spectrum, especially on issues of religion, nationalism, Israel, and social values. But he is not an extreme figure in many respects.
FWIW I agree-had the pleasure of hearing him in a Jerusalem schule lecture the evening when YU announced that he would be next Prez.Checked news in internet before going to his lecture nothing on it-come back Jewish sites were mentioning it. R Berman is right wing compared to the average American politically nothing wrong about that-
O Jewish organizations have stopped caring about general population. Could you imagine today a Bernard Lander trying to increase Orthodox participation in the March on Washington? Today only thing that counts is who will give certain mosdos more money. What morality has come down to.
ReplyDeleteI am not saying that Kirk is a bad person-he was a political operative for Christian ideas. Not my concern one way or the other -same comment for Karl Rove or Rahm Emanuel. None were sadikim or reshayim. Certainly over the top garbage for a frequent FNC Chabad Rabbi contributor who referred to Kirk as an Avraham Avinu.
You are being Motzi Laz on the Jewish people, mycroft. Not that you care. Anything that will get a rise out of other commentators is good enough for you post. and you go to great lengths to finf material to base it on! That is really sick! Shame on you.
DeleteOf course, that is general reality-look where typically OJews have been using up their political capital on-aid to day schools, Stem funding for teachers etc.
DeletePutting ones head in the sand the way Israel has conducted the war since Oct 7 has been disastrous to both Israel and Am Israel. I happened to have studied IHL so I knew right away that according to the vast majority of the world Israel not complying with international norms-what has been the result of violating those norms-not getting into whether on a theoretical level Israel's own set of ethics is better or worse than the internationally recognized ones-but it is the International ones that are crucial to survive as part of the nations of the world-unless one is a superpower which Israel is not.
DeleteI am not a defender of Jewish institutions-they should be evaluated honestly on a cost/benefit analysis. We just don't have that-nor BTW have many sacred cows been examined-such as the positive and negative aspects of emphasizing day schools as the sole way to be a proper OJ in US. I am not tied to any Jewish organization and most recent payments to close relatives from arguably Jewish org is salary from IDF
Charlie Kirk said enough things to support any conclusion about him, particularly without the full context. When fair minded individuals like RD Berman and R. Pfeffer praise him, nothing more need be said except by those with known biases against anyone/thing right-wing/conservative.
ReplyDeleteCut the baloney -if hypothetically Rabbi Berman felt that Kirk dabbled in anti-Semitism he couldn't state it. He wants to be in good terms with Administration-remember he gave a benediction at DJT inaugural.
DeleteThat’s just swell. If R’Berman, being a fair-minded guy and all, praises a controversial political polemicist, that’s enough for you. “Nothing more need be said,” you say. Why try to figure out things for yourself when there a fair-minded guys out there to do your thinking for you? Thinking, you say, is for people who are biased against right-wingers.
DeleteAs i said: "nothing more need be said except by those with known biases against anyone/thing right-wing/conservative." And they have both spoken!
DeleteThere are bigger biases in favor or RW politicians for reasons other than Israel and anti-Semitism by Jewish Orthodox machers. Talents of gold.
DeleteYou are putting YOUR head directly into the mud of antisemitism. And the shame of it all is that you don’t even realize it, Mycroft. You think you’re being objective. and that is beyond sad. It is tragic that a. Frum Jew could do something like that
ReplyDeleteIt is sad that those who support conservative politics are unable to call out dog whist.les if not more of anti-Semitism. Same issue when in 2016 Iowa primary Cruz referred to NY values..Yeah NY hundreds of miles away onI-0 don't know if sign still there got a ride to Quad Cities airport a few decades ago and one sign as soon as crossed the Mississippi was turn to get on road to NYC
ReplyDeleteYou keep proving my point
ReplyDeleteI believe you do by refusing to recognize that conservative politicians also are not ohavei Yisrael. You start with that implicit assumption.
Delete"Not all of Kirk’s politics — anti-LGBTQ+, anti-woke, anti-abortion, anti-DEI — map neatly onto halacha, or Jewish law."
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm going to depend on some Forward writer to tell me what halacha says about those things.
"(And there are other biblical values that he would seem to have violated personally; demeaning speech, for example, is prohibited.)"
Kirk was notorious for not using demeaning speech and insisting his audiences not do so either.
Kirk usede anti-Semitic dog whistles.
DeleteI’m sure your understanding of halacha is consistent with Kirk’s views on Blacks, Hispanics, non-white immigrants to America, women, and gays.
ReplyDeleteJews are prohibited from eating pork. Within that Jewish view, there are those who simply state that pork is prohibited and are undisturbed by those who are not Jewish who eat pork. Then there are those who see pork as disgusting and blanch at the sight of pork.
ReplyDeleteThe same holds true for Jewish perception of Christianity. We can either view Christianity and the beliefs that diverge from Jewish beliefs as simply the beliefs and customs of others, or we can look at them as evil. There are Jews who will view Christianity in the latter way. This appears to be more common among secular Jews than among religious Jews.
Secular Jews often harbor anti-religious views, but combined with a Jewish identification, hold greater animosity toward Christianity. I have heard phrases like, 'they are shoving Jesus down the throats of our children' emanating from secular Jews. They may not know Judaism well, but they know they are not Christians and are proud of that fact.
Within Christianity itself, there is a similar spectrum of religious to anti-religious Christians. Christianity's internal conflicts are its own. The problem arises when Jews get into this mix. It is never wise to pick sides in a family squabble. That Jews tend to rise to the top of many movements means that those Jews who enter the fray will be prominent and noted as being Jewish.
To view Christian annoyance at the anti-Christian rhetoric of these Jews as antisemitic is specious. These types of people often attack and then present themselves as martyrs to hammer in their point. When Christians argue, it's best to follow the Talmudic dictum of viewing silence as a guardrail to wisdom.
We do not see Jews or Christians meddling in Islamic internal affairs. Even the slightest critique is viewed as 'Islamophobic.' Of course, Jews living in the US are more familiar with the customs and philosophy of Christianity than they are with Islam. The relationship is different since America is still a Christian country composed of believing and non-believing Christians and others.