Friday, September 26, 2025

The Kirk Conundrum

Billboard of the president and Charlie Kirk in Tel Aviv (Forward)
Louis Keene’s article in the Forward presents a fascinating glimpse into the appeal the late Charlie Kirk’s had to Orthodox Jews. While at the same time being seen a classic old-line antisemite by secular and heterodox Jews. I think Keene has hit the proverbial nail on the head. Not only does Kirk appeal to Orthodox Jews, but he has been elevated to near icon status. Here is how Keene puts it:

In the hours and days following Kirk’s assassination, it seemed like every Orthodox leader and institution in America was treating a devout Christian like a deceased rebbe.

The chief executive of Aish, an Orthodox outreach organization, mourned the loss of “a courageous advocate for our people.” The president of Yeshiva University called Kirk “a personal friend, a friend to our community.” The head spokesperson for Chabad highlighted the Turning Point USA founder’s “steadfast friendship to the Jewish people.” A Chabad rabbi even called Kirk “the Abraham of our time.”

The last time I discussed why I believed Kirk’s views resonated so strongly with Orthodox Jews, I got pushback from some of my liberal Jewish friends. They were quick to list (or link to) antisemitic tropes Kirk used and challenged me on why I thought someone who said things like that could ever be seen as a friend - much less an icon to Orthodox Jews.

The answer is quite simple. As Keene notes, both Kirk and Orthodox Jews place a high value on the Bible, whose values guide our lives. His support for Israel, for example, is based on God’s promise to the Jewish people that the Holy Land is given to them. That is the primary reason Orthodox Jews support Israel as the Jewish homeland. Instead of, say, Uganda.

In a culture that glorifies behavior the Bible considers abominable, Kirk’s rejection of that culture resonates with us too. This is also why Evangelical Christians, who focus so much on biblical values, are our natural allies.

But what about those antisemitic tropes? Shouldn’t that at least neutralize, if not outright cancel, our consideration of Kirk as an icon? And what about the following?

Not all of Kirk’s politics — anti-LGBTQ+, anti-woke, anti-abortion, anti-DEI — map neatly onto halacha, or Jewish law. (And there are other biblical values that he would seem to have violated personally; demeaning speech, for example, is prohibited.)

First, I would have to disagree that being anti-LGBTQ+ is in any way a violation of Halacha. In fact, the opposite is true. Halacha is very much opposed to LGBTQ+ values and practices. And while demeaning speech is a serious violation of Jewish law, its application is not as simple as one might think (the details of which are beyond the scope of this post). But even if it is, the fact that he is guilty of one violation (which, I dare say, we are all guilty of) does not negate his views on other biblically guided issues with which we agree, especially those issues that directly impact the moral fabric of this country.

The irony is that those who oppose Kirk, and consider him an unrepentant antisemite, cannot understand why so many Orthodox Jews can identify with a man like that. It is as if they consider us clueless about those tropes. But that is not the case. What is the case is that we judge the overall person. We see what they value and what they don’t. And more importantly, we examine more closely why he made some of those disparaging comments about ‘the Jews’. This is not to say that we should condone those comments. We should not. It is only to understand why they are not necessarily antisemitic.

A closer look shows that what bothered him about ‘the Jews’ is the very same thing that bothers Orthodox Jews about the majority of the Jewish world – who are not observant and mostly very liberal politically. Namely, that their values are not biblically based, but instead shaped by prevailing liberal cultural attitudes.

When Jews are at the forefront of promoting the anti-biblical values of an LGBTQ+ agenda, they should be called out. Which I have done. Many times!

These are the Jews Kirk was talking about. And blaming them for the moral decline in the country is not that far off if you consider that the centerpiece of that decline is Hollywood. The sad reality is that Jews have an inordinate influence in what Hollywood produces and promotes. Their numbers in Hollywood are vastly greater, proportionally, than their numbers in the general population. So of course they share responsibility.

That being said, Kirk should not have singled out ‘Jews’ as responsible for the moral decline of American culture. He should have instead simply focused on liberals or progressives, without mentioning Jews. Because when he did, he left himself open to being considered an antisemite. Which he clearly was not. He was simply opposed to the values promoted by the majority of non-Orthodox Jews, most of whom have substituted liberal or progressive values for biblical ones:

Kirk carried the torch for ideas that the liberal consensus holds are outdated: that marriage is between a man and a woman; that a woman should submit to her husband; that gender is defined at birth; and that belief in God is the source of morality.

In other words, Orthodox Jews and the ‘Charlie Kirks of the world’ are really on the same biblical page. The obvious major theological differences between us don’t amount to a hill of beans when it comes to promoting the values of the Bible. Values upon which we see eye to eye. That is why he is considered a near icon.

What about accusations that Evangelical Christians (of which Kirk was one) only support us in order to convert us?

Nonsense. I agree with Eli Steinberg, a Haredi Orthodox commentator who wasn’t suspicious of Kirk’s motives and said the following:

“We’re not at the point in time right now where the Christian allies of Jewish people are seeking to convert Jews to Christianity,” Steinberg said. “What we do have is an overwhelming force of secularists who have, in place of religion, woke politics.”

As further noted by Keene:

Kirk’s Christianity was central to his appeal, in part because he made Jewish practice a part of it. He wrote a forthcoming book about the value of “the Jewish Sabbath” — from a conservative publishing house, not ArtScroll — in which he said he observed Shabbat by turning off his phone and logging out of social media. And he once implored Jewish students to observe Shabbat themselves.

If Kirk was an antisemite, we sure could use a lot more antisemites like him. It would make the U.S. a far better place to raise our children. And America might just see Israel in an entirely different and entirely better light.

13 comments:

  1. From article you refer to
    , these tributes may have seemed strange. Charlie Kirk, steadfast friend? This was a man who blamed Jews for promoting “anti-whiteness.” Courageous advocate for our people? Kirk had said “radical, open border, neoliberal, quasi-Marxist policies” were the fault of Jewish donors....y; demeaning speech, for example, is prohibited.) But as Orthodox Jews have allied with the Christian right, there has been a values exchange. Orthodox Jewish organizations are now participants in the weakening of the separation of church and state, which liberal Jews tend to see as the bedrock of Jewish success and security in this country....Religion scholars say the notion of “Judeo-Christian values” — which Kirk often said were foundational to the United States — are a right-wing myth...But if trafficking in antisemitic tropes leads to antisemitic violence, as organizations like the ADL — which said Kirk “created a vast platform for extremists and far-right conspiracy theorists” — often assert, then Orthodox Jews have a disproportionate likelihood of being the victims. Right-wing antisemitism remains a greater cause of violence than left-wing antisemitism; the mass shooter at Chabad of Poway in 2019 hated both Muslims and Jews.

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  2. How interesting how many Orthodox leaders will praise someone who has spoken in an anti-Semitic manner because they perceive alliance maybe good for a talent of gold. All about pocketbook-Orthodox Jews don't in geeneral perceive any responsibility to the general population thus support candidates based on what will be good for their assets. Certainly, if can dream feeding off US taxpayers for your programs that per se becomes the moral position. Has beeen like that fr decades. FWIW 55 or so years ago things were slightly different YU for example had many students volunteering in local public school tutoring kids who were not Jewish and not crowd that Kirk's followers were interested in. No matter anyones positions there is no excuse for violence-.

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  3. Okay. Kirk was an antisemite who believed unpleasant things about Jews that Jews themselves should recognize and admit. I think I’ve heard that one before, regarding another critic of Jewish liberalism.

    But what about Kirk’s views of Black people? You know, all the stuff about the Civil Rights Act being a bad idea and slavery being a good deal for the slaves. About America being founded as a country for white people, who are destined to run it. Is that okay, considering that Kirk dreamed of a straitlaced, pious, law-abiding nation wedded to the Bible?

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  4. No. But I would need to hear context and reserve judgment til then.

    If he is the racist you imply he is,DSF, how is it possible that so many O Jewish Organizations and rabbis consider him an icon?

    I think it might be the case that comments he made about slavery for example might be based on the biblical view of slavery. Which is NOT based on skin color. The Bible does not look that unfavorably on slavery considering that it discusses the possibility of a Jew preferring to remain a slave, alllowing him to do so, and instructing him how to go about it Halachcily.

    This does not of course match the common view of slavery these days. Which is based on the horrible way slaves - who were all black- were treated. But you can’t judge the standards of yesteryear by the standards of today.

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    1. Kirk made making derogatory comments about Blacks for many years. Just Google them and decide for yourself their context and meaning.

      I really don’t care what various right-wing Orthodox organizations have said about Kirk. Anti-Black racism isn’t something that these organizations seem to care about, as it isn’t a strictly Jewish religious concern. In the past couple of years Kirk embraced Israel, which likely influenced these organizations’ view of him. That and Kirk’s hardcore anti-LGBTQ, xenophobic, pro-white views, which mirror those of much of the far-right Orthodox community.

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    2. Do you really think the president of YU is a far right O Jew? He isn't.

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    3. I am beginning to believe that you think ALL Orthodox Jews (or at least the vast majority) are right wing extremists. If believing that God (through His Word - the Bible) is the source of morality makes one an extremist, then I too am an extremist.

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    4. Biblical commandments need not be rational-see e.g. chukim. We follow them because we believe God revealed the Torah for Jews to follow.Non Jews 7 Noachide laws-entirely different than Taryag

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    5. It took me a few minutes to find R’Berman’s remarks on Kirk’s death, made at a YU concert. R’Berman said Kirk was “a great friend of our community” and offered prayers for his family.

      Kirk was pro-Israel for the past two years or so, as I’ve said. He was rewarded for it: Bernie Marcus gave millions to Turning Point, Kirk’s organization. Many right-wing Jews considered Kirk’s support to have been a valuable link to the MAGA base, which otherwise has few institutional ties with Jews, religious or otherwise. Others applauded him simply because he applauded Israel.

      R’Berman isn’t far-right, but he isn’t going to overlook a chance to praise “a great friend of our community” who was killed by an assassin’s bullet. Kirk’s well-earned reputation for anti-Black bigotry and support for white nationalism apparently did not faze the rabbi, who, after all, was talking about Us, not Them. They are beside the point — always beside the point.

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    6. Re R Ari Berman I asked chatgbt where he stands politically Where That Places Him

      Putting these together, Rabbi Ari Berman tends towards the conservative / center‑right end of the spectrum, especially on issues of religion, nationalism, Israel, and social values. But he is not an extreme figure in many respects.
      FWIW I agree-had the pleasure of hearing him in a Jerusalem schule lecture the evening when YU announced that he would be next Prez.Checked news in internet before going to his lecture nothing on it-come back Jewish sites were mentioning it. R Berman is right wing compared to the average American politically nothing wrong about that-

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  5. O Jewish organizations have stopped caring about general population. Could you imagine today a Bernard Lander trying to increase Orthodox participation in the March on Washington? Today only thing that counts is who will give certain mosdos more money. What morality has come down to.
    I am not saying that Kirk is a bad person-he was a political operative for Christian ideas. Not my concern one way or the other -same comment for Karl Rove or Rahm Emanuel. None were sadikim or reshayim. Certainly over the top garbage for a frequent FNC Chabad Rabbi contributor who referred to Kirk as an Avraham Avinu.

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    1. You are being Motzi Laz on the Jewish people, mycroft. Not that you care. Anything that will get a rise out of other commentators is good enough for you post. and you go to great lengths to finf material to base it on! That is really sick! Shame on you.

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    2. Of course, that is general reality-look where typically OJews have been using up their political capital on-aid to day schools, Stem funding for teachers etc.

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